they both can -- romney can get wrangled and discombob beau lated and obama can be too pro lix, pro fe sore yal, i could go on. >> how very pro lix of you. >> and he could be he could seem smug and can seem dismissive and so in that open forum there, you're going to see interesting dynamics and it's why there's a lot of why as you put it pro fa lattic efforts that go with diddle earlier. >> and pro lix. >> plenty of sparks in this debate. >> but i also think too, let's not forget that the people that he has to win, for example, women, aren't really wanting zingers. they hate his policies. and that's problematic. when you're going into a debate with a bunch of sort of -- let's say nonwomen friendly not enjoying the prophylactics that is problematic. >> we have to go to break. the fact that time, that 15 minutes, allows for a fairly robust back and forth between the candidates and perhaps the discussion of some actual policy specifics which could be debate crip toe nick. coming up babies have been -- this is following a line. babies have always been a part of political campaigns but this